19 Responses to “Obama and Geography”

1. BH Farwolly
   September 4th, 2008 @

   What you know ’bout Asia, honky?

   

2. Jason
   September 4th, 2008 @

   No, they probably don’t teach Geography at Harvard Law, actually.

   Maybe their geography knowledge is dictated by FIFA (the world governing body of soccer) which now has Australia playing in the Asian Confederation. By FIFA’s standards you would also have to claim Israel is part of Europe and Palestine is a country.

   But now I’m riding my soapbox into a post of a different topic.

   But seriously Eric, you can’t really be laying this out as evidence of the Obama campaign not knowing what they’re doing. Can’t it simply be that they’re equating diplomatic relations with Australia to diplomatic relations with Asian countries? Strong relations with countries in that part of the globe are all interconnected, the same way Teddy Roosevelt viewed South America as being under the purview of the US and not Europe because of its location on the globe, not because he believed it was part of our country.

3. Aaron
   September 4th, 2008 @

   You’re probably right. Democrats are probably cooler than Republicans. We were first on the civil rights movement and gay rights. We respect women and their ability to choose what’s best for their bodies. We dress better and are more apt to listen to Coltrane than Toby Keith. So yeah, it’s likely that someone who’d choose to insult Barack Obama’s intelligence would be “uncool”.

   But that’s not the issue here, is it? Insulting Barack Obama’s intelligence isn’t just uncool, it’s inaccurate. Barack Obama, despite being the most unlikely of presidential candidates, has run perhaps the most competent presidential campaign in recent memory. He’s captured his party’s nomination and become an international phenomenon in the process. He’s perhaps the most skilled American orator in a generation and has managed to galvanize young and old alike with fresh ideas.

   But go ahead, nitpick away. No doubt it’ll get us to the heart of the issues that matter most in this election. You were sharing your cutting insights on geography…

4. Eric Hazard
   September 4th, 2008 @

   It’s a mistake. It shows carelessness. It treats the Asian Pacific rim as something “over there.” It reads like he’s trying to win a contest by naming more countries than the other guy.

   And it lacks any substance whatsoever. Why doesn’t he give us details about HOW he plans to maintain strong ties with countries like South Korea, Japan and Australia.

   Let’s take South Korea and Japan for example, since they are after all actually in Asia. One issue these two countries jointly face is the threat of North Korea. Japan is not too keen to just sit down and talk with the North Koreans until the North Koreans admit to kidnapping Japanese citizens in the 70s and 80s, and to return said kidnappees. Until the North Koreans fess up, the Japanese have said tough cookies about bilateral discussions between the two nations. The way Japan sees it, the North Koreans need the Japanese a lot more than the Japanese need the North Koreans. They want to hide behind a wall of silence, fine. It’s complicated and would require some extremely skilled diplomacy skills to bring those two together bilaterally.

   But what does Obama propose? “Obama is willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe. He will do the careful preparation necessary, but will signal that America is ready to come to the table, and that he is willing to lead. And if America is willing to come to the table, the world will be more willing to rally behind American leadership to deal with challenges like terrorism, and Iran and North Korea’s nuclear programs.”

   Really? Just like that “the world” is going to be behind us? How would the Japanese perceive a meeting between Obama and Kim Jong Il? What possible strain would such a meeting put on a strong American/Japan relationship? And God only knows what the South Koreans might think of that. That relationship is REALLY complicated.

   The point is there are a lot of layers in Asia. There are a lot of problems that don’t have simple let’s all gather by the campfire and sing kum-by-ya solutions. Obama shows a real lack of knowledge about the region and its complexity by simply lumping “South Korea, Japan and Australia” into a generic “Asia” label.

5. Jason
   September 4th, 2008 @

   Your concern about Obama’s plan for handling Asia notwithstanding, Obama is simply following the political trend of the world by including Australia when discussing Asia. Geopolitical issues don’t tend to follow the continental borders we were taught in grade school. Australia is in the same part of the world as Asia, therefore the issues that most dramatically affect Asia also tend to affect Australia.

   You’re trying to force geopolitical relations into a somewhat arbitrary definition of ‘continent.’ Going by what I was taught in school there are 7 continents. It is a definition based on a combination of landmass and culture thereby counting Europe and Asia separate from one another just as North and South America are separate. Spanish children are taught that North and South America are one continent (viewing it from the POV of their history as a colonial power). Yet another definition would count only 4 distinct continents, based on landmass alone: Antarctica; Australia; America; Europe/Asia/Africa.

   The point is that your definition of continent is arbitrary in this context and the definition is fluid depending on your POV. For the purposes of geopolitics, Australia can be justifiably included in any rational discussion of Asian politics.

6. Jason
   September 4th, 2008 @

   This is a complete aside from the thread of this discussion.

   It should be noted that the method of teaching Spanish children about the continents is contradictory. North and South America are counted as 1 continent because it is one land mass separated only by a man-made canal, while ignoring the glaring cultural differences between Latin America and USA/Canada.

   Yet they consider Europe separate from Asia separate from Africa. This despite there being absolutely no geographical separation between Europe and Asia and only a…wait for it…man-made canal separating Asia from Africa.

   And I once had to spend 20 minutes trying to convince some Spaniards that there is actually land underneath the Antarctic ice and then additional time convincing them that it was bigger than a small island (in fact, it’s bigger than Europe).

7. Joel L. Friedlander
   September 4th, 2008 @

   There is a saying in my business about trials; when you’re strong on the law, pound on the law, when you’re strong on the facts, pound on the facts, and when you’re weak on the law and weak on the facts, Make Smoke. Eric, what you’re doing is making smoke. No matter whether the Republicans win this one or lose it, they have made a mess of international affairs for the past 8 years, and it began long before 9/11.

   If I were running their campaigns right now I would admit the mistakes and say that we had lost our way. I would also unceremoniously dump every official in the party who had any responsibility for the mistakes. I would run on the theme that we had cleaned house, that our original ideas were sound, and that we had moved back to our basic ideas. BUT, the current crop of leaders will not admit that their ideas about a unitary president are fascist, that their ideas about an American empire are imperialistic, and that their ideas of economic prosperity are not accurate for the bulk of the American people.

   Nope, this party is going to have to walk in the desert for the next four years and get their head together. No amount of pointing out minor errors by the Obama people is going to change the situation for the Republicans.

   Give them a bag of water a wooden staff and let them walk among the scorpions for a few years.

8. Amy
   September 4th, 2008 @

   I’m amazed no one has mentioned yet how McCain repeatedly refers to Czechoslovakia in the present tense.

9. Jason
   September 4th, 2008 @

   Joel, I think you’re absolutely right. The RNC reeks a little of the DNC of 4 years ago in that the political landscape is, in many ways, ready for them to win, but they can’t get their act together.

   Four years ago the Democrats had the opportunity to appropriate the War on Terror for themselves and set the terms which, I firmly believe, would have put John Kerry in the White House. But they did what Democrats always do: cower in the corner while Republicans beat them up on national defense. They also pretended like 9/11 never happened and it wasn’t worth being part of the discussion. Why does being a Democrat have to equal being a wussy with a ‘p’?

   The Republicans now have the opportunity to do exactly as Joel has indicated: dump everyone connected with Bush; own up to the mistakes that have been made during the last 8 years; set the terms for the next four including strong national defense, getting it right in Iraq and Afghanistan and ALSO fixing the problems at home. I think that’s a guaranteed victory.

   But this is the brand of today’s Republicans. “We can make no mistakes.”

   So it’s the Democrats’ election to lose now. And don’t put it past them to muck it up.

10. Jason
    September 4th, 2008 @

    Is McCain’s reference to Czechoslovakia at all related to my mom continuing to refer to Hispanics as “Spanish” in front of my girlfriend, who is actually from Spain unlike the immigrants my mother refers to?

11. Eric
    September 4th, 2008 @

    The post has nothing to do with the current administration or McCain. It has to do with an obvious mistake on Obama’s Web site. It’s a mistake and people are defending it. Why? Why not just say, “yep, it’s a mistake, he should probably fix that. Here I’ll send a note to the Webmaster to look into the problem.”

    Now some folks here think the mistake is not substantive. Ok, I’ll look for other mistakes. It was pointed out in an earlier post we should read Obama’s policies before making comments. Well, I’m reading, here’s what I’m finding.

    Obama is not above gaff. I’m trying to shed some light on corners people choose to keep dark to protect their biases.

12. Jason
    September 4th, 2008 @

    I contend that it’s not a mistake. I find it very, very, VERY difficult to believe there’s anyone writing policy on Obama’s website who doesn’t know that Australia is not in Asia.

    If it is a mistake I don’t think it’s any more troubling than McCain not being aware that Czechoslovakia doesn’t exist.

13. Jason
    September 4th, 2008 @

    Perhaps the Obama website should be more specific and refer to it as “Asia-Pacific” which is the more common geopolitical term.

    Here’s a primer on Australia’s importance in the region:

    http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=509&language_id=1

    You’re using Obama’s website as proof he doesn’t understand international relations. However, it appears that awareness of the influence Australia has in Asia (third largest trading partner of China) is critical in a run for the American Presidency. Seems to me Obama’s website is evidence of that understanding.

14. Joel L. Friedlander
    September 5th, 2008 @

    In response to Eric, the problem is that both parties are operating under the assumption that it is not possible to admit that a mistake has been made. Now one of the stupidest examples of that philosophy took place about ten years ago when the then sitting president refused to admit that he was having an affair with an intern. If he had admitted that he was doing what he was doing there would have been no impeachment and he wouldn’t have nauseated me and completely turned my wife off to the Democrats.

    When you screw up you have to admit it or you will get into more trouble. As the rule goes, when you have dug yourself into a hole the first thing to do is to stop digging. Now the current president is a great follower of the Bill Clinton playbook in that he wouldn’t admit that he made a mistake if you held his feet to a hot fire. That is a philosophy that we will have to discard if we are going to move forward in this country.

    So, to what Eric said, I fully agree, the Obama campaign should just admit to mistakes and get along with the campaign.

15. Keith
    September 5th, 2008 @

    What the fuck does it matter. Bush has ruined this country and you want to talk about a goddamn map? What we need is a president who will actually go and meet these leaders, not just bomb them. This is just more republican scare tactic bullshit. Distract from the real issues, and divide the country. Hope you enjoy the coming depression, you fucking asshat.

16. Grant Catton
    September 5th, 2008 @

    This kind of nitpicking is what nauseates me about modern Politics and the way its covered by the press. These guys give dozens of speeches per week, and everything they say is Hyper-Analyzed and chopped to bits because there isn’t any real news to report about either campaign. Over the course of nine months, this has become unbearable.

    There used to be a day when a politician could open his mouth without there being a YouTube video of the speech posted within 10 minutes. This has made them incredibly accountable for their words, but as a result they can’t say anything that’s the slightest bit daring or provocative.

17. Joel L. Friedlander
    September 5th, 2008 @

    What is an asshat?

18. Josh Friedlander
    September 5th, 2008 @

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ass-hat

19. Amy
    September 5th, 2008 @

    Keith – I could not agree more.

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