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	<title>Comments on: Taibbi on the recession</title>
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	<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/</link>
	<description>Intelligent Criticism in the Service of a Better Nation</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Josh Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143767</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143767</guid>
		<description>Oh, Eric. You're suggesting that problems are nuanced and that their solutions require hard work. For shame. You'll never get elected to anything that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Eric. You&#8217;re suggesting that problems are nuanced and that their solutions require hard work. For shame. You&#8217;ll never get elected to anything that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Hazard</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143759</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hazard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143759</guid>
		<description>Josh: that is the most brilliant description I've ever had written about me. I'm going to replace my corporate bio with it. 

The problem with asking me what I would do is that I don't have all of the information. I can’t provide a solution based upon some anecdotal evidence written on rollingstone.com. And why do I have to provide a solution? Taibbi didn’t provide anything approaching a solution. He merely said we should get angry. Ok, check. Now what? 

Merely, I was pointing out inconsistencies in the article and saying that if you are going to paint a doomsday scenario about “revolutionary economic changes” in this country, is it asking too much to do a bit a research? Perhaps ask some questions to economic experts. Dig into poverty statistics in the United States. Provide unemployment numbers. You know, make a case for change. Don’t just write angry posts about how unfair life is. Guess what, it’s unfair for everyone. 

So I say this out loud, ask intelligent questions, point out inconsistencies, and what do I get? Some anonymous poster telling me I should go hang myself. Nice. Real mature. That’s definitely going to help folks out. 

Some solutions are beyond the scope of the national debate Taibbi talks about. High property taxes need to be addressed in the state legislature. If the property tax burden is that bad, I would suggest moving to a lower tax state. 

I only wish I had a solution to high fuel oil prices, then I could make the real money. But rather than offer a solution (cause I don't have one) I might ask why people are consuming so much fuel and are they taking steps to reduce their fuel consumption. Are rural Vermonters driving compact fuel-efficient cars or are they driving SUVs. I don't know, the article doesn't say. If someone wants to visit their ailing father in Connecticut, but can't because of fuel costs, have they looked into bus services? Perhaps there are other ways to get to your father that are more fuel efficient. Same for people needing medical services. Ask the hospital if they have a ride share program (here's a hint: they probably do). 

There were also some concerns about food. This I have a solution for. Vermont has a lot of rural property, let's bring back agriculture. Encourage local farmers to grow crops for food consumption, not for fuel. Do this through a series of tax breaks and tax incentives. Then establish farmers markets for the grower to seller directly to the consumer. The food won't have the same mark-up as the grocery store applies, people will be eating better, and it promotes the agriculture industry in the state. There will be a series of knock-on jobs with the growth of this industry. 

For single mothers, I'd advise they consult WIC and similar state sponsored programs. The Vermont State Health Department can be a wonderful resource about programs available to those in poverty to care for their children. I'd also ask why the father isn't involved in the child's life. If they are deadbeats, the mother should collect child support. 

There are a few ideas. Of course, it takes time to change some practices (particularly the bit about agriculture), but no one said change has to happen tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh: that is the most brilliant description I&#8217;ve ever had written about me. I&#8217;m going to replace my corporate bio with it. </p>
<p>The problem with asking me what I would do is that I don&#8217;t have all of the information. I can’t provide a solution based upon some anecdotal evidence written on rollingstone.com. And why do I have to provide a solution? Taibbi didn’t provide anything approaching a solution. He merely said we should get angry. Ok, check. Now what? </p>
<p>Merely, I was pointing out inconsistencies in the article and saying that if you are going to paint a doomsday scenario about “revolutionary economic changes” in this country, is it asking too much to do a bit a research? Perhaps ask some questions to economic experts. Dig into poverty statistics in the United States. Provide unemployment numbers. You know, make a case for change. Don’t just write angry posts about how unfair life is. Guess what, it’s unfair for everyone. </p>
<p>So I say this out loud, ask intelligent questions, point out inconsistencies, and what do I get? Some anonymous poster telling me I should go hang myself. Nice. Real mature. That’s definitely going to help folks out. </p>
<p>Some solutions are beyond the scope of the national debate Taibbi talks about. High property taxes need to be addressed in the state legislature. If the property tax burden is that bad, I would suggest moving to a lower tax state. </p>
<p>I only wish I had a solution to high fuel oil prices, then I could make the real money. But rather than offer a solution (cause I don&#8217;t have one) I might ask why people are consuming so much fuel and are they taking steps to reduce their fuel consumption. Are rural Vermonters driving compact fuel-efficient cars or are they driving SUVs. I don&#8217;t know, the article doesn&#8217;t say. If someone wants to visit their ailing father in Connecticut, but can&#8217;t because of fuel costs, have they looked into bus services? Perhaps there are other ways to get to your father that are more fuel efficient. Same for people needing medical services. Ask the hospital if they have a ride share program (here&#8217;s a hint: they probably do). </p>
<p>There were also some concerns about food. This I have a solution for. Vermont has a lot of rural property, let&#8217;s bring back agriculture. Encourage local farmers to grow crops for food consumption, not for fuel. Do this through a series of tax breaks and tax incentives. Then establish farmers markets for the grower to seller directly to the consumer. The food won&#8217;t have the same mark-up as the grocery store applies, people will be eating better, and it promotes the agriculture industry in the state. There will be a series of knock-on jobs with the growth of this industry. </p>
<p>For single mothers, I&#8217;d advise they consult WIC and similar state sponsored programs. The Vermont State Health Department can be a wonderful resource about programs available to those in poverty to care for their children. I&#8217;d also ask why the father isn&#8217;t involved in the child&#8217;s life. If they are deadbeats, the mother should collect child support. </p>
<p>There are a few ideas. Of course, it takes time to change some practices (particularly the bit about agriculture), but no one said change has to happen tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143756</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143756</guid>
		<description>Hey, Dan Barry: any thoughts? You write about the downtrodden. Do you think we owe them something or are the cold hearted right wing libertarian invisible hand bastards right and life is nothing but shadows and dust, maximus, shadows and dust?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Dan Barry: any thoughts? You write about the downtrodden. Do you think we owe them something or are the cold hearted right wing libertarian invisible hand bastards right and life is nothing but shadows and dust, maximus, shadows and dust?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143747</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143747</guid>
		<description>Elwood: the thing is, Eric's a polemical UFC street fighter in the mold of Royce Gracie. He can spar, but he's totally effective once he grabs you, brings you down to the mat and finds a way to cut off the air. It's like following a snake into the brush: bad idea. Don't fight him on his territory. You've got to stick with the larger point. Yes, Taibbi talks a lot of smack and his example is pretty blinkered. 

However, I do not see any reason to deny that there ARE people in Vermont working multiple jobs who cannot afford gas. This IS a problem, even if they are above the UN-designated poverty line. Do we want Americans living like this even if they are partially responsible for getting into a bad situation? No! There has to be a solution. 

In part, we will help them because it's a self-interested thing. People too poor to buy gas have a greater incentive to engage in criminal activity, and they probably aren't raising very well-adjusted children! What I always want to know is what &lt;em&gt;would&lt;/em&gt; Eric have us do for them? 

There will always be people handicapped in some way. When this handicap is mental, we tend to ignore it unless it is hugely pronounced. But what about the dumb people who can't make as much as we well-fed city slickers? Do we leave them to burn firewood in their living rooms in the winter? Do we have any responsibility to protect them from themselves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elwood: the thing is, Eric&#8217;s a polemical UFC street fighter in the mold of Royce Gracie. He can spar, but he&#8217;s totally effective once he grabs you, brings you down to the mat and finds a way to cut off the air. It&#8217;s like following a snake into the brush: bad idea. Don&#8217;t fight him on his territory. You&#8217;ve got to stick with the larger point. Yes, Taibbi talks a lot of smack and his example is pretty blinkered. </p>
<p>However, I do not see any reason to deny that there ARE people in Vermont working multiple jobs who cannot afford gas. This IS a problem, even if they are above the UN-designated poverty line. Do we want Americans living like this even if they are partially responsible for getting into a bad situation? No! There has to be a solution. </p>
<p>In part, we will help them because it&#8217;s a self-interested thing. People too poor to buy gas have a greater incentive to engage in criminal activity, and they probably aren&#8217;t raising very well-adjusted children! What I always want to know is what <em>would</em> Eric have us do for them? </p>
<p>There will always be people handicapped in some way. When this handicap is mental, we tend to ignore it unless it is hugely pronounced. But what about the dumb people who can&#8217;t make as much as we well-fed city slickers? Do we leave them to burn firewood in their living rooms in the winter? Do we have any responsibility to protect them from themselves?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143742</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/2008/07/22/taibbi-on-the-recession/#comment-143742</guid>
		<description>Paul, you bad man, you've written more than Elwood. I don't think you can admonish him to work harder. And what an awful thing for a blogger to say! It's like telling kids to get away from your ice cream truck because it will make them fat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, you bad man, you&#8217;ve written more than Elwood. I don&#8217;t think you can admonish him to work harder. And what an awful thing for a blogger to say! It&#8217;s like telling kids to get away from your ice cream truck because it will make them fat!</p>
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