<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ll say whatever I have to</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/</link>
	<description>Intelligent Criticism in the Service of a Better Nation</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Joel Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/#comment-140555</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/?p=1556#comment-140555</guid>
		<description>I am well aware of what I wrote, after all it is set out just above these comments higher on this page.  What my remarks mean is that I am appalled with politicians who try to get votes by constantly pointing out their deep religious commitment.  They are lying, each and every one of them.  If a person has true religious convictions he or she doesn’t have to keep pointing them up on a continuous basis.  

This entire campaign has been one religious lovefest, especially by the Republican candidates.  Romney was forever talking about faith, Thompson was continually babbling about it, as was Mike Huckabee, a minister.  If you really believe that they were speaking the truth then we don’t have to have any further discussions because you are too trusting to discuss politics.

None of these candidates was standing in the pulpit preaching to a congregation during the campaign, but it would be hard to tell that from the religious platitudes that they were spewing.  You want to know the real reason for my vituperation?  Well it’s the fact that we are hearing the same platitudes from both the parties and it would be better for the United States of America if they just remained secular parties.

Now the Republicans have been trying to be a religious party since they figured out that if they could get the majority of the religious right wing votes they could be a majority party.  That began with Ronald Reagan, who almost never attended church, although he spoke regularly about his faith.  Since then it has been impossible to run on the Republican ticket without meeting endless religious qualifications.

What I have observed from that religious party is behavior which has been largely unethical and in foreign affairs entirely immoral.  That is what I think of the Republican Party.  What is tragic is that many genuinely religious people have continued to vote for liars and frauds because those frauds presented themselves as religious people.

My anger at Obama is that he has fallen for the same trap.  He now wants to turn the Democratic Party into a religious party so that he can defeat the Republicans.  I expected more from him and that party.  Hence my anger.

The United States Constitution, in Article VI, Section 3 provides, “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

This country is planted thick and fast with different religions, and most of them think that the way that they believe is the only correct way, and is better than the way other religions believe.  Such thinking has been the cause of endless slaughter of Catholics by Protestants, Protestants by Catholics, Catholics by Muslims, and Muslims by Catholics.  Millions of people have been slaughtered because they didn’t believe the way others thought that they should think.  And of course, all of the above have slaughtered the Jews for over two thousand years.  All in the name of the belief in G-d.

I don’t want America to turn into what Europe was for so many centuries.  Let all the politicians believe what they want.  All they need do is say, “I believe in G-d”, and let it go at that.  Any more of a discussion of the topic results in the elevation of one religious tradition over another and that always leads to slaughter.

Let us follow the Constitution and leave religion to the individual believer, or non believer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am well aware of what I wrote, after all it is set out just above these comments higher on this page.  What my remarks mean is that I am appalled with politicians who try to get votes by constantly pointing out their deep religious commitment.  They are lying, each and every one of them.  If a person has true religious convictions he or she doesn’t have to keep pointing them up on a continuous basis.  </p>
<p>This entire campaign has been one religious lovefest, especially by the Republican candidates.  Romney was forever talking about faith, Thompson was continually babbling about it, as was Mike Huckabee, a minister.  If you really believe that they were speaking the truth then we don’t have to have any further discussions because you are too trusting to discuss politics.</p>
<p>None of these candidates was standing in the pulpit preaching to a congregation during the campaign, but it would be hard to tell that from the religious platitudes that they were spewing.  You want to know the real reason for my vituperation?  Well it’s the fact that we are hearing the same platitudes from both the parties and it would be better for the United States of America if they just remained secular parties.</p>
<p>Now the Republicans have been trying to be a religious party since they figured out that if they could get the majority of the religious right wing votes they could be a majority party.  That began with Ronald Reagan, who almost never attended church, although he spoke regularly about his faith.  Since then it has been impossible to run on the Republican ticket without meeting endless religious qualifications.</p>
<p>What I have observed from that religious party is behavior which has been largely unethical and in foreign affairs entirely immoral.  That is what I think of the Republican Party.  What is tragic is that many genuinely religious people have continued to vote for liars and frauds because those frauds presented themselves as religious people.</p>
<p>My anger at Obama is that he has fallen for the same trap.  He now wants to turn the Democratic Party into a religious party so that he can defeat the Republicans.  I expected more from him and that party.  Hence my anger.</p>
<p>The United States Constitution, in Article VI, Section 3 provides, “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”</p>
<p>This country is planted thick and fast with different religions, and most of them think that the way that they believe is the only correct way, and is better than the way other religions believe.  Such thinking has been the cause of endless slaughter of Catholics by Protestants, Protestants by Catholics, Catholics by Muslims, and Muslims by Catholics.  Millions of people have been slaughtered because they didn’t believe the way others thought that they should think.  And of course, all of the above have slaughtered the Jews for over two thousand years.  All in the name of the belief in G-d.</p>
<p>I don’t want America to turn into what Europe was for so many centuries.  Let all the politicians believe what they want.  All they need do is say, “I believe in G-d”, and let it go at that.  Any more of a discussion of the topic results in the elevation of one religious tradition over another and that always leads to slaughter.</p>
<p>Let us follow the Constitution and leave religion to the individual believer, or non believer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Hazard</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/#comment-140551</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hazard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/?p=1556#comment-140551</guid>
		<description>I understand you wish to keep government and religion separate. What I don’t understand is why you have such a prejudice against people who use religion as a determining factor for their vote. Why are people who base their vote, in part at least, on a President’s religious bearing, or spirituality, “stupid” or on a “lunatic fringe?” What makes this factor any less relevant, or important, than a candidate’s position on abortion? Or how they feel about morally ambiguous questions around cloning? Or our moral obligation to protect the Earth? Or their stance on gay marriage? Or their views on polygamy? The death penalty? War versus pacifism? Godless communism versus a theocracy? Or the right for Zionists to claim a homeland that was promised to them…by God? 

If all of these other factors are valid, why is it, that a person who may consider religion as merely one factor to consider for their vote, in a world full of infinite factors, is “stupid?” 

I will again retype what you have written:

“…the right wing religious lunatic fringe…”
“…religious panderers we have been afflicted with…”
“The American people are just as stupid as any other people, and given the chance they will flock to some “Leader” who can help them find the true path.”
“Religious ass licking is what all of our candidates are doing…”
“…only thing they really worship is the Almighty Dollar.”

The choice of phrases you have used here are offensive and meant to inflict harm. This is hate speech. Please do not talk down to my argument by classifying it as emotional, and therefore baseless. My judgment is not clouded. Your inflammatory statements are clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand you wish to keep government and religion separate. What I don’t understand is why you have such a prejudice against people who use religion as a determining factor for their vote. Why are people who base their vote, in part at least, on a President’s religious bearing, or spirituality, “stupid” or on a “lunatic fringe?” What makes this factor any less relevant, or important, than a candidate’s position on abortion? Or how they feel about morally ambiguous questions around cloning? Or our moral obligation to protect the Earth? Or their stance on gay marriage? Or their views on polygamy? The death penalty? War versus pacifism? Godless communism versus a theocracy? Or the right for Zionists to claim a homeland that was promised to them…by God? </p>
<p>If all of these other factors are valid, why is it, that a person who may consider religion as merely one factor to consider for their vote, in a world full of infinite factors, is “stupid?” </p>
<p>I will again retype what you have written:</p>
<p>“…the right wing religious lunatic fringe…”<br />
“…religious panderers we have been afflicted with…”<br />
“The American people are just as stupid as any other people, and given the chance they will flock to some “Leader” who can help them find the true path.”<br />
“Religious ass licking is what all of our candidates are doing…”<br />
“…only thing they really worship is the Almighty Dollar.”</p>
<p>The choice of phrases you have used here are offensive and meant to inflict harm. This is hate speech. Please do not talk down to my argument by classifying it as emotional, and therefore baseless. My judgment is not clouded. Your inflammatory statements are clear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel L. Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/#comment-140535</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel L. Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/?p=1556#comment-140535</guid>
		<description>It is not intolerance of religion, it is the desire to keep religion out of government and government out of religion.  Moreover, I think you are being very emotional about this issue and it is clouding your response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not intolerance of religion, it is the desire to keep religion out of government and government out of religion.  Moreover, I think you are being very emotional about this issue and it is clouding your response.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/#comment-140494</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/?p=1556#comment-140494</guid>
		<description>Joel, 

I wasn't criticizing your religion. I was criticizing your use of hate speech against those which make political decisions based wholly or in part on religious convictions. Your choice of terms to describe people voting in part based on religion is deeply offensive to me. I cannot believe in this day and age I must fight against the intolerance you espouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel, </p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t criticizing your religion. I was criticizing your use of hate speech against those which make political decisions based wholly or in part on religious convictions. Your choice of terms to describe people voting in part based on religion is deeply offensive to me. I cannot believe in this day and age I must fight against the intolerance you espouse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel L. Friedlander</title>
		<link>http://www.americanmadness.com/2008/07/01/ill-say-whatever-i-have-to/#comment-140387</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel L. Friedlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://americanmadness.com/?p=1556#comment-140387</guid>
		<description>Eric,
     You seem to have totally missed the point I was trying to make.  Like yourself I believe in G-d and I also attend services each and every week and have done so for over 25 years.  What I cannot abide is pandering.  Moreover, like Jefferson, with whom I do not compare myself, I believe that religion has no place in the public arena.  Candidates should not be judged based upon whether their beliefs correspond with any voters.  If we take that vote than we will never have a Buddhist president, or a Hindu President, or an Atheist President, or an Agnostic president.  The religion of a man or women, or their beliefs in the almighty or non beliefs, have nothing to do with what should be the concerns of the polity. 

As to religious based charities, they have no business getting any federal money unless, and until, they agree to eliminate any religious bias in their hiring, firing, or activities.  This is hardly likely to happen, especially as many religions are fixated upon proselytizing their own faith.  Moreover, there is frequently a religious bias in hiring for members of their own group members.  That is perfectly ok, so long as they aren't taking any public money.  If they are, they have no business hiring from only their own kind.  Thus, public money going to religion hurts both the religious interests and the public interest.

Morals and values have nothing to do with religion, and there is nothing wrong with the polity inquiring as to the morality and ethical thinking of the people that they elect.  Aligning religion with that determination will only take us to an era of religious tests for office which are specifically forbidden by the constitution.   I completely disagree with your statement that strong religious bearing is important to our leaders.  Strong ethics and morals yes, religious bearings, NO NO NO!

People didn't openly inquire about religion for the first two hundred years of this republic; it only came to the fore with a democrat named Jimmy Carter, hence my scorn of that man.  I don't care whether the next president is an atheist, so long as he follows the proper moral precepts and ethical rules.  

I believe in a complete wall between religion and government, for the interests of both government and religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,<br />
     You seem to have totally missed the point I was trying to make.  Like yourself I believe in G-d and I also attend services each and every week and have done so for over 25 years.  What I cannot abide is pandering.  Moreover, like Jefferson, with whom I do not compare myself, I believe that religion has no place in the public arena.  Candidates should not be judged based upon whether their beliefs correspond with any voters.  If we take that vote than we will never have a Buddhist president, or a Hindu President, or an Atheist President, or an Agnostic president.  The religion of a man or women, or their beliefs in the almighty or non beliefs, have nothing to do with what should be the concerns of the polity. </p>
<p>As to religious based charities, they have no business getting any federal money unless, and until, they agree to eliminate any religious bias in their hiring, firing, or activities.  This is hardly likely to happen, especially as many religions are fixated upon proselytizing their own faith.  Moreover, there is frequently a religious bias in hiring for members of their own group members.  That is perfectly ok, so long as they aren&#8217;t taking any public money.  If they are, they have no business hiring from only their own kind.  Thus, public money going to religion hurts both the religious interests and the public interest.</p>
<p>Morals and values have nothing to do with religion, and there is nothing wrong with the polity inquiring as to the morality and ethical thinking of the people that they elect.  Aligning religion with that determination will only take us to an era of religious tests for office which are specifically forbidden by the constitution.   I completely disagree with your statement that strong religious bearing is important to our leaders.  Strong ethics and morals yes, religious bearings, NO NO NO!</p>
<p>People didn&#8217;t openly inquire about religion for the first two hundred years of this republic; it only came to the fore with a democrat named Jimmy Carter, hence my scorn of that man.  I don&#8217;t care whether the next president is an atheist, so long as he follows the proper moral precepts and ethical rules.  </p>
<p>I believe in a complete wall between religion and government, for the interests of both government and religion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
